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Travis Desell
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Message 2972 - Posted: 1 Aug 2014, 0:28:45 UTC

Hi Everyone,

So I want to try and start unifying the projects to simplify server updates, checking the forums, etc. Before I get going I want a little feedback as to what I'm planning so everyone is okay with it.

Basically, I'm going to create a new project (probably called "Citizen Science Grid") or something along those lines. Unfortunately, because people have different accounts on each project I can't do an automatic merge of the users and databases. So this means you'd have to create a new account on the new project (when the new project starts those will be the only forums for the site).

When the new project is up and going, I'll allow everyone to transfer their credit from their other accounts via a webpage (basically if you're logged in, you can enter in the user name and id of your account on citizen science grid, hit okay and it will transfer the credit over). So a couple questions about this approach:

1. will it break the credit trackers too badly? I'll subtract credit on the old project to 0, and then add the same amount of credit to the new account on citizen science grid.
2. I kind of want to keep credit for the different projects separate; if I keep different tables and export the stats of each project as it's own part of XML, will that cause any problems? Or would everyone rather just have one combined credit for each of the projects here (Wildlife@Home, DNA@Home, and SubsetSum@Home -- we'll probably be launching another one in the fall as well, so I want to get this done before we go doing that).

So, once I get some feedback, and if people don't have too many issues with this I'll set up the new project and get things started. Otherwise back to the drawing board. :P

thanks, hope to hear from you soon about this!
--Travis

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Message 2973 - Posted: 1 Aug 2014, 3:35:34 UTC

You should have a look at World Community Grid, IBERCIVIS, YoYo and others who manage "sub-projects" for an idea how to handle the stats... Get an idea of what people like and/or don't with their methods. I know a general complaint at WCG is usually that you can't get very detailed stats from the site, it's left to third parties to come up with the useful graphs.
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Message 2974 - Posted: 1 Aug 2014, 15:12:35 UTC - in response to Message 2972.

1. It will most definitely mess with team stats. Those users with history in a project but are no longer active or don't check their project forum won't be counted in the "new" project of the identical name. The teams will loose a partial credit total for the original stats and regain only a partial total when only some of the members "transfer" their credits.
2. Since the projects are so very different, I think it is imperative that the credits and badges be kept separate within the "Umbrella" project (The Grand Unified Theory of Citizens Science Grid). Since none of these projects is accepted in the DC Vault, that stat tracker won't be effected. Other trackers are certain to go into High Speed Wobble mode.

Lastly, I've put a lot of effort in getting my Quad Amethyst Badge for video watching and would also go into High Speed Wobble mode if it disappeared.
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Message 2975 - Posted: 1 Aug 2014, 15:16:15 UTC - in response to Message 2974.

1. It will most definitely mess with team stats. Those users with history in a project but are no longer active or don't check their project forum won't be counted in the "new" project of the identical name. The teams will loose a partial credit total for the original stats and regain only a partial total when only some of the members "transfer" their credits.
2. Since the projects are so very different, I think it is imperative that the credits and badges be kept separate within the "Umbrella" project (The Grand Unified Theory of Citizens Science Grid). Since none of these projects is accepted in the DC Vault, that stat tracker won't be effected. Other trackers are certain to go into High Speed Wobble mode.

Lastly, I've put a lot of effort in getting my Quad Amethyst Badge for video watching and would also go into High Speed Wobble mode if it disappeared.


I definitely don't want anyones badges/credit to disappear -- I want to come up a way to do this without screwing with that.

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Message 2976 - Posted: 1 Aug 2014, 15:29:39 UTC - in response to Message 2975.

Ideally I'd like to have one set of server side daemons and forums, and then keep the individual projects for tracking credit... I don't know how feasible that is.

Maybe when a user created an account on citizen science grid, they could link it to an account on SubsetSum@Home, Wildlife@Home or DNA@Home if they have one already.

That way when they get credit for any particular application, it will be assigned to the account on that project and the credit/badges can still be exported separately for each sub project.

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Message 2994 - Posted: 10 Aug 2014, 9:44:43 UTC - in response to Message 2976.

Ideally I'd like to have one set of server side daemons and forums, and then keep the individual projects for tracking credit... I don't know how feasible that is.


I think this will work for existing users. But whats about new users? This will mean that they must create another account with the same e-mail adress on every subproject.

Boinc Manager allows to create an account directly without using the webpages, so how will a user realize, that he have to do this?

I suppose, the only way is to integrate the other projects completely like other umbrella projects (all apps/accounts at one server) and only export the stats from this server with the different subprojects. I know, yoyo@home or PG exporting stats for every of their subrojects.

But not all old users will transfer their credit, so you will have a mess while some users have old credits, some others not. I think the only way is not to export these old credits from this server, only show them somewhere in the user pages and begin a fresh export from here.

Anonther idea. You did not transfer any credits to the new server, so you can begin here a fresh export and retire the old subproject servers.

Regards Odi
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Message 2999 - Posted: 10 Aug 2014, 20:28:38 UTC - in response to Message 2994.

I think this will work for existing users. But whats about new users? This will mean that they must create another account with the same e-mail adress on every subproject.


Nope, new users only need to make an account here on CSG and everything is taken care of after that.

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Message 3157 - Posted: 23 Aug 2014, 1:46:45 UTC - in response to Message 2999.

I hate to add another wrench to the fire, but have you gotten with the services like Willy at BOINSTATS to change the name of the project there? Many people use his service to add projects to their projects.

I've done the transitions you requested, yet BOINSTATS is still trying to add back the Wildlife@home and DNA@home projects to my computer because they do not appear to have been updated with the Citizens Science Grid changeover.

I know, I know, one more thing that needs to be added to the list of many tasks you need to take care of...

Travis Desell
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Message 3158 - Posted: 23 Aug 2014, 1:52:51 UTC - in response to Message 3157.

I hate to add another wrench to the fire, but have you gotten with the services like Willy at BOINSTATS to change the name of the project there? Many people use his service to add projects to their projects.

I've done the transitions you requested, yet BOINSTATS is still trying to add back the Wildlife@home and DNA@home projects to my computer because they do not appear to have been updated with the Citizens Science Grid changeover.

I know, I know, one more thing that needs to be added to the list of many tasks you need to take care of...


Nope, I haven't contacted them yet because there's still a lot to do with the move. Also, Dave Anderson added some per-application credit options in a recent update to the BOINC code, so I should actually start using that as it should export the stats in a format the states sites are used to. (Too bad all my custom multi project code is gonna go down the drain!)

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Message 3204 - Posted: 26 Aug 2014, 16:12:15 UTC - in response to Message 3158.
Last modified: 26 Aug 2014, 16:14:11 UTC

Travis,

Nice job sir, like it very much.

I'm not clear on the future path - is it your intention to move to a WCG/Primegrid style project with a single project report to the stats sites? Or will you keep the project reporting separate? I know you mention this in your first post but wanted to know if you've made a decision. I vote for separate reports but if this means more wok for you then obviously I'm all for the path of least resistance.

I just got my first ever DNA WU so I'm all excited :)

Regards

Steve
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Travis Desell
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Message 3206 - Posted: 26 Aug 2014, 21:35:01 UTC - in response to Message 3204.

Travis,

Nice job sir, like it very much.

I'm not clear on the future path - is it your intention to move to a WCG/Primegrid style project with a single project report to the stats sites? Or will you keep the project reporting separate? I know you mention this in your first post but wanted to know if you've made a decision. I vote for separate reports but if this means more wok for you then obviously I'm all for the path of least resistance.

I just got my first ever DNA WU so I'm all excited :)

Regards

Steve


I'll be exporting everything as a whole, with options for parsing credit for the individual sub projects (it looks like BOINC has some code to do this -- I just need to move my custom stuff over to it). So ideally we'll have the best of both worlds.

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Message 4528 - Posted: 22 Sep 2014, 16:41:22 UTC

Hi

I don't know where to post this on the "new" forum : I can see I have an account on CSG, based on my previous mail (the same for all 3 projects, like my account name which is also identical), however I can only see the credits of wildlife on the account page, nothing about my DNA or subset credits.

Also in the project preferences, only reference to DNA and wildlife applications, nothing about subset, is it normal ?

Thanks

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Message 4530 - Posted: 22 Sep 2014, 17:30:46 UTC - in response to Message 4528.

Hi

I don't know where to post this on the "new" forum : I can see I have an account on CSG, based on my previous mail (the same for all 3 projects, like my account name which is also identical), however I can only see the credits of wildlife on the account page, nothing about my DNA or subset credits.

Also in the project preferences, only reference to DNA and wildlife applications, nothing about subset, is it normal ?

Thanks


You'll need to "link" your accounts to the old projects. You can do this by going to this page:

http://volunteer.cs.und.edu/csg/link_accounts.php

Travis Desell
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Message 4531 - Posted: 22 Sep 2014, 17:31:04 UTC - in response to Message 4530.

Crap, it looks like that page got trashed when I was doing some updates. I'll try and get this fixed up ASAP.

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Message 4535 - Posted: 22 Sep 2014, 21:08:49 UTC

Indeed :)

Someone just told me about the "link" option and I found it was "forbidden" and then I came here and saw your post, thanks for the answer, I will wait for the fix.


Regarding the merger of projects, I translate here the explanation of Sebastien who is the developer and admin of one of the main Alliance Francophone own statistical website, http://statseb.boinc-af.org

He says

La situation est complexe. Au départ, on avait trois projets indépendants: DNA, SubsetSum et Wildlife.
L'admin a souhaité fusionné ces 3 projets en un seul: Citizen Grid. Malheureusement, la fusion est incomplète.
Il a d'abord repris les données du projet Wildlife pour créer le projet Citizen Grid, puis a laissé aux crunchers le soin de fusionner leurs comptes. Il y a un bug au niveau de la fusion puisque les comptes sont fusionnés sur Citizen Grid mais aussi sur Wildlife.
Actuellement, on se retrouve avec les stats de Wildlife faussées et les stats de Citizen Grid incomplètes.

Tant que l'admin ne fait pas d'export des stats par sous-projets, je ne peux rien faire. Je vais regarder pour restaurer les stats de Wildlife.


The situation is complex. Initially, there were three independent projects: DNA, SubsetSum and Wildlife.
The admin wished to merge these three projects into one: Citizen Grid. Unfortunately, the merger is incomplete.
He first took the data from Wildlife project to create the Citizen Grid project, and then asked the crunchers to merge their accounts. There is a bug in the merger because the accounts are merged on Citizen Grid but also on Wildlife.
Currently, we have wrong stats on Wildlife and incomplete stats on Citizen Grid.

As long as the admin does not export stats by sub-projects, I can do nothing. For the moment I will try to restore the stats of Wildlife.


Hope this helps, Sebastien is a great guy always willing to help and fix issues - and very effective at it !

If you need direct contact with him let me know.

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Message 4537 - Posted: 23 Sep 2014, 2:23:29 UTC - in response to Message 4535.
Last modified: 23 Sep 2014, 2:24:32 UTC

So I was making some updates and accidentally trashed the link account page. I'm working on getting it back up and working. I'm hoping to have it live tomorrow and ready for use again. Sorry about that!

I also need to update the stats export, which should hopefully be working soon. Will keep you all posted on that (I'm at a conference this week but I'll see if I can get it up and going soon).

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Message 4542 - Posted: 24 Sep 2014, 18:07:30 UTC

Linking working, thanks for the support Travis.

I'll let Sebastien know about the export.

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Message 4543 - Posted: 24 Sep 2014, 18:28:05 UTC - in response to Message 4542.

Linking working, thanks for the support Travis.

I'll let Sebastien know about the export.


The exporting isn't working yet. I still need to update that. I'll make a news post when it is working.

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Message 4544 - Posted: 25 Sep 2014, 11:07:55 UTC

Yes, yes, I meant "once you have told it is ok", of course :)


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