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Travis Desell
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Message 7175 - Posted: 30 Jun 2017, 1:34:56 UTC

Sorry for taking a bit long on this, but I've gone through and done a credit reimbursement for the MNIST app which was having the "monster" workunits. I took everyones credit for that app and multiplied it by 1.15 (i.e., a 15% bonus).

On another credit related note, I've dropped the credit awarded from future generated workunits by 10%, as the general consensus is that the credit rate is really high. Let me know what you think about this and I can do some more adjustment if it was not enough (or too much).

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Message 7176 - Posted: 1 Jul 2017, 1:25:15 UTC - in response to Message 7175.
Last modified: 1 Jul 2017, 1:38:48 UTC

Personally I don't think credit rate should have been dropped, not now anyway it's just too late. People starting to crunch here now will be penalised for starting late and will never catch the leaders even if they crunched more work than they did. Changing now after all this time is unfair.
Was the credit rate high? err yea it was. But of the many hundreds of people who crunch here only a few have even mentioned it. Everyone else did what all boincers do, they voted with their feet(or PC's in this case) and stayed here crunching so is certainly not an major issue for them(or me). For those i've talked to it's quite the opposite.

So why, or more to the point why now?

While on the subject of credit, at the moment there is none. Validation seems to have stopped. Sever shows 988 awaiting validation

https://csgrid.org/csg/workunit.php?wuid=1294602 <--this is one of them I have many more.

I guess that fix's the credit problem as now there is none. .LOL

PS Does the credit reimbursement also include EXACT MNIST Batch CNN Trainer 2.0 who's runtime was twice as long but credited half as much as it should have?

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Message 7177 - Posted: 1 Jul 2017, 4:26:05 UTC
Last modified: 1 Jul 2017, 4:55:11 UTC

So ever since adrianxw posted I have been biting my tongue .. I hope I am brief.

1) I ( as a contributor ) do not think the credit rate was "too" high. Comparing points between projects or even sub-projects is not a useful endeavor. adrianxw's argument holds no water with me at all.

2) The 10% drop in point rate does not bother me. It was only 21 May that version 0.26 came out that doubled the performance / points ( along with fixing a major bug that was annoying the crap out of people ). Since then things have been very stable. I think Travis's adjustment is both warranted and very restrained.
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Message 7179 - Posted: 2 Jul 2017, 9:55:49 UTC

Hello,

at first, sorry for my English from Google Translate ;)

I started BOINC a month ago and I quickly wondered why CSG gives me so high score (about ten times more then 11 other projects I joined at the same time).

I thought, it must be some error and credits are multiplied by ten, or something.

Maybe I wrong because I still do not know too much about how points are calculated and what they means, but in 11 projects I have now total scores between 16544 and 61906 compared to CSG with 419760. Very strange for me.

This is why I think credit reduction is good.

Thank you.

PS. I do not know why other people do it, but I joined to BOINC to help humanity, not to earn points that I did not even know about before, although scoring is very exciting and engaging, of course :P ;) But getting points is not the goal of BOINC, is it? ;)

Joe
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Message 7182 - Posted: 4 Jul 2017, 23:38:01 UTC - in response to Message 7175.

I could give a rats azz about science or the other high and noble reasons others crunch for...I crunch for the credits.

I put my boxes on the projects that maximize credits. Another project I crunch for just announced they were doubling the credits to keep and attract users. This project has just announced a 10% credit reduction.

Guess what project I am going to be running....

adrianxw
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Message 7188 - Posted: 7 Jul 2017, 10:27:30 UTC

>>>
I could give a rats azz about science or the other high and noble reasons others crunch for...I crunch for the credits.
<<<

Lets hope that one day when you are dying of cancer or similar, your credits will be able to put you at ease.
____________
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JoeFortune
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Message 7190 - Posted: 9 Jul 2017, 8:56:24 UTC - in response to Message 7188.

>>>
I could give a rats azz about science or the other high and noble reasons others crunch for...I crunch for the credits.
<<<

Lets hope that one day when you are dying of cancer or similar, your credits will be able to put you at ease.



In credits we trust

JugNut
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Message 7191 - Posted: 9 Jul 2017, 21:23:25 UTC - in response to Message 7188.
Last modified: 9 Jul 2017, 22:04:49 UTC

>>>
.
<<<

Lets hope that one day when you are dying of cancer or similar, your credits will be able to put you at ease.


@adrianxw:
This project needs crunchers who do the work, not people who do little else except make grand statements trying to make themselves appear better than others. And WTF has cancer got to do with anything? Just how low can you go to try & push your pathetic argument. That crap may have worked at WCG but here it shows who & what you truly are,

Ask yourself who would you prefer at your project someone like you, or someone with a pile of PC's that does tons of work who likes credits? Surely even you must realize that you can like credits and care too? The two are not mutually exclusive.

Talk about full of yourself, the crunching needs to be done who cares who does it & why. It's elitist garbage like that that's killing boinc.

RFGuy_KCCO
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Message 7194 - Posted: 11 Jul 2017, 4:27:39 UTC
Last modified: 11 Jul 2017, 5:06:35 UTC

My feeling is that credits should almost never be changed and I do not believe they should have been changed at this project.

Frankly, it is foolish to even compare points from project to project. Those days are long gone. A BOINC "Combined" score is meaningless anymore, since many projects have been doing their own thing with points for years. There is no standard points system that is adhered to (CreditNew sucks, everyone knows it sucks, and almost no projects use it).

Therefore, it does not matter when someone says "points are too high here." So what? Compared to what? Everyone crunching for this project was being awarded points in the same manner. Points were awarded fairly to crunchers AT THIS PROJECT. That is all that matters. Just because other projects award fewer points is no reason to do so here.

I am not ashamed to admit I like getting points for my efforts. I enjoy working towards Mega Milestones, WUProp hours, and projects goals and badges. What's wrong with that? I am donating tons of money in hardware and electricity. Points are the least a project can do for its crunchers (badges being the best - CSG ticks both boxes).

I also support the science, of course. But it isn't my sole reason for crunching. The way I look at it, the more points I receive, the more I am crunching and helping the science. The two goals are not mutually exclusive, but are actually quite related.

Bottom line: While I would like to see the points left alone, that is not up to me. I really just wanted to share my thoughts on points in general.
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Travis Desell
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Message 7200 - Posted: 12 Jul 2017, 18:39:36 UTC - in response to Message 7194.
Last modified: 12 Jul 2017, 18:40:38 UTC

Totally understand the everyones points about not wanting credit to change -- but there is a kind of unwritten rule that BOINC projects try and at least keep their credits somewhat inline as a gentleman's agreement. I want to be good to the volunteers, but I also want to make sure that I'm being good to the BOINC community as a whole.

There are actually some pretty good reasons for this. If everyone started increasing their credits in order to get more users, pretty soon everyone would be offering infinite credits, they'd lose their meaning, and then where would we be at? :)

It's also nice to be able to have a way to at least somewhat compare work done between projects.

That being said, the credit system is pretty flawed. It's *really* hard (read: impossible) on my end to actually calculate something that gives a good estimate about how much work the application is going to do. Programs can have non-deterministic operation, each bit of hardware is different in terms of memory caches, CPU level parallelism, etc. Basically it's impossible to know how many FLOPs an application really performs and how the application is going to be interacting with any one of a million different kinds of hardware components.

If we're awarding 10x credit above the next highest project, that seems a little extreme in my book. I know you all put up with a lot in terms of me debugging things on the fly and being a rather small and time limited operation -- and I'm more than happy to give bonus credit for that -- but I don't think we should be sitting at a credit rate an order of magnitude higher than the next project.


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Message boards : News : [wildlife] credit reimbursement and credit rate reduction