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adrianxwSend message
Joined: 31 May 17 Posts: 12 Combined Credit: 5,728,418 DNA@Home: 0 SubsetSum@Home: 0 Wildlife@Home: 5,728,418 Wildlife@Home Watched: 0s Wildlife@Home Events: 0 Climate Tweets: 0 Images Observed: 0
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I've only been a cruncher here for a few days, yet, my credit total now exceeds 500,000, more than other projects I have been crunching for years. The quota for the project is not high.
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adrianxwSend message
Joined: 31 May 17 Posts: 12 Combined Credit: 5,728,418 DNA@Home: 0 SubsetSum@Home: 0 Wildlife@Home: 5,728,418 Wildlife@Home Watched: 0s Wildlife@Home Events: 0 Climate Tweets: 0 Images Observed: 0
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... and a day later, exceeds 700,000.
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Gibson Praise Send message
Joined: 5 Aug 16 Posts: 56 Combined Credit: 50,846,655 DNA@Home: 0 SubsetSum@Home: 73,256 Wildlife@Home: 50,773,399 Wildlife@Home Watched: 0s Wildlife@Home Events: 0 Climate Tweets: 769 Images Observed: 25,032
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There was an earlier discussion ( This thread ) back in February. At that time I got this for W@H:
Notes: measurements in terms of # seconds to produce a BOINC point (seconds for unit divided by points granted).
System Spec: Xeon E5-2650 @2.1 GHz running Win10
EXACT: running in between 17 - 21 sec/pt
recent returns have me at 6.5 - 7 sec/pt (due to code and/or compilation improvements I believe).
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Travis DesellVolunteer moderator Project administrator Project developer Project scientist Send message
Joined: 16 Jan 12 Posts: 1813 Combined Credit: 23,514,257 DNA@Home: 293,563 SubsetSum@Home: 349,212 Wildlife@Home: 22,871,482 Wildlife@Home Watched: 212,926s Wildlife@Home Events: 51 Climate Tweets: 22 Images Observed: 774
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If credit is too high I can tone it down a bit. Thoughts? |
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JumpinJohnny Send message
Joined: 24 Sep 13 Posts: 237 Combined Credit: 10,275,610 DNA@Home: 192,548 SubsetSum@Home: 201,740 Wildlife@Home: 9,881,323 Wildlife@Home Watched: 55,997,833s Wildlife@Home Events: 15,584 Climate Tweets: 334 Images Observed: 351
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My highest ten days with CSG have all been between May 29 and June 24.
I have reached or am close to several personal goals.
My high credit total (for me), has been the result of sticking with the variety of trials and WU experiments since last December. It's been well worth it.
I would be somewhat dishonest to say I don't like the current credit payoffs. I would also be dishonest to say that they are not on the high side for a CPU WU. |
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adrianxwSend message
Joined: 31 May 17 Posts: 12 Combined Credit: 5,728,418 DNA@Home: 0 SubsetSum@Home: 0 Wildlife@Home: 5,728,418 Wildlife@Home Watched: 0s Wildlife@Home Events: 0 Climate Tweets: 0 Images Observed: 0
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My credit is over a million now, in 2 weeks crunching, at regular project priority. Compared with say Rosetta, another CPU based project, this has almost 1.3 million, but has been crunching here at above normal priority, since 2005.
Of CPU based projects, all but 1 have a recent average under 5000, the last has an average of 7000. The recent average here is just short of 30000
I maintain the credit here is too high.
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DJStarfoxSend message
Joined: 23 Jan 15 Posts: 11 Combined Credit: 1,111,385 DNA@Home: 19,182 SubsetSum@Home: 0 Wildlife@Home: 1,092,202 Wildlife@Home Watched: 0s Wildlife@Home Events: 0 Climate Tweets: 0 Images Observed: 0
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I agree that RAC is too high compared to other projects. Typically, projects benchmark their workunits against the credit granted by a SETI@Home workunit. |
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Coleslaw Send message
Joined: 22 Jun 12 Posts: 22 Combined Credit: 40,950,784 DNA@Home: 569,863 SubsetSum@Home: 1,698,846 Wildlife@Home: 38,682,075 Wildlife@Home Watched: 0s Wildlife@Home Events: 0 Climate Tweets: 15 Images Observed: 0
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I agree that RAC is too high compared to other projects. Typically, projects benchmark their workunits against the credit granted by a SETI@Home workunit.
Wait what? What projects have actually done that? SETI uses the Credit New credit system which is all over the place at most projects that try it. If a benchmark is set for comparison, the project admins typically do it based on the community as a whole. Not based on SETI. So, what they typically will do when setting theirs is either used fix credit per work unit or they will base it off of what a specific processor's performance is. SETI is also considered by the general community to under credit and would be a horrible idea as a basis.
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UBT - TimboSend message
Joined: 31 Dec 13 Posts: 1 Combined Credit: 3,020,188 DNA@Home: 45,472 SubsetSum@Home: 169,611 Wildlife@Home: 2,805,105 Wildlife@Home Watched: 0s Wildlife@Home Events: 0 Climate Tweets: 0 Images Observed: 0
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Hi all
Although, in an idealistic world, the credits issued by a project shouldn't matter, in reality, they do to a lot of people.
As such, I think the projects should set the credit level to be commensurate with how quickly they want to see results from the tasks that they make available.
A higher than average credit earning capability will (usually) attract more crunchers to the project and hence the project scientists will get back more meaningful results in a shorter space of time.
So, I have no issue with any project setting too high or too low a level of credit, for any amount of validated tasks, uploaded by crunchers.
Of course, the credit offered can be varied by each project depending on the level of difficulty each type of task presents....
So, where's the problem? Some projects offer lower than average credits per task (SETI, Sztaki) and others are higher.
As long as everyone crunching the same type of tasks on the same project using a similar CPU, gets the same level of credit, then what the actual credit ratio is (compared to CPU or GPU time), should be down to the project.
regards
Tim |
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DJStarfoxSend message
Joined: 23 Jan 15 Posts: 11 Combined Credit: 1,111,385 DNA@Home: 19,182 SubsetSum@Home: 0 Wildlife@Home: 1,092,202 Wildlife@Home Watched: 0s Wildlife@Home Events: 0 Climate Tweets: 0 Images Observed: 0
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The credit system only works if the baseline metric is the same (or similar) as all other projects. When one project grants significantly less or more credit than other projects, it creates an unfairness that encourages other projects to defect. Granted credit would then vary wildly between projects for the same CPU/GPU. The end result is the invalidation of credit as a measurement of user contribution. (I.e., credits become meaningless without a standard metric/unit to compare against.)
In regards to my SETI comment earlier, back on the old credit system, SETI had a numeric scale for measuring work done that could be translated to other projects. I'm not familiar with how it's done now. Perhaps an expert at another project would be helpful for a consult? Or one of these technical guys:
http://boinc.berkeley.edu/trac/wiki/ProjectGovernance |
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adrianxwSend message
Joined: 31 May 17 Posts: 12 Combined Credit: 5,728,418 DNA@Home: 0 SubsetSum@Home: 0 Wildlife@Home: 5,728,418 Wildlife@Home Watched: 0s Wildlife@Home Events: 0 Climate Tweets: 0 Images Observed: 0
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I've tried to get this fixed, but he doesn't seem to want too. At the same Resource share setting, I get 5 times the credit here as I do at other CPU projects, it is by some way, my highest credit awarder, 5-6 times the next highest. I gave up bothering, credit is of no use anyway.
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Travis DesellVolunteer moderator Project administrator Project developer Project scientist Send message
Joined: 16 Jan 12 Posts: 1813 Combined Credit: 23,514,257 DNA@Home: 293,563 SubsetSum@Home: 349,212 Wildlife@Home: 22,871,482 Wildlife@Home Watched: 212,926s Wildlife@Home Events: 51 Climate Tweets: 22 Images Observed: 774
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I'm waiting for a couple batches of runs to complete, and then have some new code to test so I'll probably keep credit at the current rate for a bit.
After the next phase of testing and getting things stable I will most likely start to lower it to get it more in line with other projects, since it seems like its significantly higher. |
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adrianxwSend message
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>>> couple batches
We've been saying this since June.....
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Conan Send message
Joined: 13 Apr 12 Posts: 151 Combined Credit: 47,672,899 DNA@Home: 399,792 SubsetSum@Home: 1,448,876 Wildlife@Home: 45,824,231 Wildlife@Home Watched: 70,910s Wildlife@Home Events: 0 Climate Tweets: 413 Images Observed: 0
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>>> couple batches
We've been saying this since June.....
Sarcasm and being ungrateful seem to go hand in hand these days, which is a pity.
If you did the amount of work that Travis does across multiple projects (not just CSG) and teaching classes, then you should be amazed at the lack of problems that arise across his projects.
Credit (or points) are a minor thing compared to getting a project running smoothly and staying running with all the work behind the scenes as well.
The projects work units run my computers very hard and hot, so a credit (or point) bonus for running them is fine by me.
Being sarcastic to the admin of a well run project (and responsive as well), will not win friends, being logical and polite just might.
Of course we have all heard it before that if we don't like what a project is doing then we are free to leave, and that course of action is open to all.
I am happy with the current status, probably because I run so many other projects that pay me bugger-all even compared to SETI, which is not the greatest payer of points, so I believe that some higher paying projects help to even my credit out overall.
Please be patient as there is only one Travis and we don't want to wear him out.
Conan
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adrianxwSend message
Joined: 31 May 17 Posts: 12 Combined Credit: 5,728,418 DNA@Home: 0 SubsetSum@Home: 0 Wildlife@Home: 5,728,418 Wildlife@Home Watched: 0s Wildlife@Home Events: 0 Climate Tweets: 0 Images Observed: 0
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I'm a little puzzled by this.
>>> Sarcasm and being ungrateful
I see no sarcasm, that is a simple statement of fact. He has said it will be fixed, and it has not been. You simply need to look at the dates of the posts in this thread to see that. He acknowledges the basically unwritten rule that projects aim to keep credit inline, he is not doing that.
Viz ungrateful, that puzzles me even more. We are doing his work, who do you think should be grateful?
>>> If you did the amount of work
I crunch many projects, under several names and have been doing so since the early predecessors of BOINC in the last century.
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Travis DesellVolunteer moderator Project administrator Project developer Project scientist Send message
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Sorry I do respond a bit slow at times. One of my issues is the next sets of workunits (after two more runs) are going to be on the CIFAR-10 dataset as opposed to the MNIST dataset. These will be approximately 3x as large which may introduce some weird memory issues which we were seeing before. I kind of like giving people some bonus credits when I know things will be a bit buggy as a bonus for putting up with the development process.
But that being said, the credit rate probably does need to be dropped a bit and I think I'll do this gradually so I don't do anything to drastic.
It won't happen for a few days though. The computer science department at UND is physically moving to a different building and this all needs to be completed by the coming monday. Which also happens to be the day before grades are due (thanks administrators!). :P So it's been a pretty hectic semester to say the least. |
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adrianxwSend message
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Of CPU projects on here at base priority, (ie. 100), their RAC varies between 1500 and 8000, of course, work unit availability needs to be factored in there. Here. also at 100 priority, my RAC right now is 25,244.
As you said...
>>> the credit rate probably does need to be dropped a bit
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DJStarfoxSend message
Joined: 23 Jan 15 Posts: 11 Combined Credit: 1,111,385 DNA@Home: 19,182 SubsetSum@Home: 0 Wildlife@Home: 1,092,202 Wildlife@Home Watched: 0s Wildlife@Home Events: 0 Climate Tweets: 0 Images Observed: 0
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Travis:
I, for one, am grateful to have a project administrator paying attention and making needed changes to this active project. That sounds like a lot of crazy work for the end of a semester. I'm sure working together, we will continue to improve the science and technicals.
Hope you have a happy holiday season. |
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Philip Send message
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I vote to leave credits as is
Philip
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Jozef JSend message
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I vote to leave credits as it.
J.J. |
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